tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post6083116116752464578..comments2023-09-28T19:10:43.760-06:00Comments on The Feminist Agenda: Identity, Defensiveness, Privilege, and Other StuffRachelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08203151255248154129noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-35149946550496485372009-04-10T21:06:00.000-06:002009-04-10T21:06:00.000-06:00@ MichaelI often suspect that many of the "hater" ...@ Michael<BR/><BR/>I often suspect that many of the "hater" types use religious or political ideology as a front for the mean and exclusionary way they already want to behave based on their insecurities. It's like they've found a larger framework that they're using to try to legitimize their hate and vitriol.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203151255248154129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-51196509557354517452009-04-10T20:59:00.000-06:002009-04-10T20:59:00.000-06:00Well said. Thanks, and once again, I do like your ...Well said. Thanks, and once again, I do like your blog.<BR/>-BenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-73465218701276288512009-04-10T20:50:00.000-06:002009-04-10T20:50:00.000-06:00@ BenYeah, I actually think of blogs as a public s...@ Ben<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I actually think of blogs as a public space. But I do think that when someone is posting on an issue that's very personal to them, and when they're socially vulnerable because of their identity, as in the case of a trans person, then I think they have a right to protect themselves in "their" space from people who are truly just coming in to be hateful and have no interest in a real discussion. <BR/><BR/>These are the types that I often have simply thought of as assholes. They're never going to change their views and only come here, for instance, to call me every name they can think of and attribute all kinds of things to me that I'm not saying. For instance, on the "Guy Culture" post, I got over 20 comments and emails combined calling me a prude, a fatty, a cunt, and claiming that I was only writing it because I don't like anal sex. There's nothing in that post about whether I like anal sex, and it's totally irrelevant. So those are the types I'm referring to. <BR/><BR/>However, I don't think everyone has to agree or be homogeneous on blogs. I think dissent and diversity are good if the people who are disagreeing are open to constructive dialogue and are there in good faith. And I participate in a number of blogs on a daily basis that don't match my demographic - check out my blogroll for a few of them. But I do think that if I'm commenting on the blog of a POC or a trans person or a disabled person, I should be respectful of the fact that they're working through issues that affect them in a way that I will never experience, so as a friend and an ally, I should be prepared to do a lot of listening and not think that my beliefs or experiences are central to the discussion. Otherwise, the privileged tend to come in and co-opt and dominate the spaces that were originally intended to allow marginalized groups to raise awareness of and work through the issues that are relevant to them.<BR/><BR/>As to your last point, I do think that feminism is about social justice and fighting oppression everywhere we find it. This requires pointing out biased social attitudes that perpetuate the systemic mistreatment of certain people. So if there's some social practice or attitude that's harmful to gays and lesbians, for example, it is the job of feminists to point it out and work for change. This shouldn't be done in a hypocritical or condescending way, of course, but if nobody works on these issues, I don't think we can expect social change to happen.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your comments!Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203151255248154129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-41727610568746146662009-04-10T20:10:00.000-06:002009-04-10T20:10:00.000-06:00Hmmm. Interesting. I’m definitely new here. Noneth...Hmmm. Interesting. I’m definitely new here. Nonetheless, I don’t think one should see these people as “assholes,” nor “feel sorry” for them. It seems like the digital age has had a tremendous impact on culture and communication. Before blogging, people used to communicate by talking to each other directly, and then came chat rooms and bbs forums. At that time, everybody had to “share the same space.” Now days, people view blogs as “personal space” and if you’re not supporting a person in their “home space” and on their “turf” then you have to leave. So the change went from direct communication to open forums to personal space. Blogs have now become like support groups where only people who support the blog creator are encouraged to join in. Everyone else is a troll. In my opinion, this is digital segregation. Feminists here, Blacks here, Hispanics here, GLBT here and the list goes on. This is very different from the pre-digital segregation era of direct discussion, chat rooms and open forums. In fact, it may turn out to be a great disservice. Sara is correct. This amounts to preaching to the choir. It you want to make a change, you have to be inclusive enough to engage those around you that do not think like you. In real-world conversation this would happen. In a personal space called “my blog”, it’s not going to happen and so the poster already knows he’s an outsider going in and therefore goes in with a chip on his shoulder expecting to not be respected. Feeling sorry for the person is only going to piss him off even more. So, I think the question should be the other way around. Why should only Blacks go the Black blog, Feminists to the Feminists blog and Trans to the Trans blog? Why is digital segregation so prevalent? I’m not a feminist, but I go to feminist blogs because I want to know if other feminists see the same thing that I am seeing. I find that feminists have become no different than the Christian right in setting moral overtones in which public standards ought to be considered right and wrong. In my mind, homophobic and any word ending in -ist is just as much “labeling” and “othering” as “sinner” and “slut” are.<BR/>Sincerely,<BR/>-Ben the new guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-87489931211805622182009-04-10T13:03:00.000-06:002009-04-10T13:03:00.000-06:00Also, some of the pictures you embed in your posts...Also, some of the pictures you embed in your posts are hilarious.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-30767421344517913912009-04-10T12:58:00.000-06:002009-04-10T12:58:00.000-06:00I'm not sure that hatefulness like this is always ...I'm not sure that hatefulness like this is always caused by insecurity or past abuses, though. Some of it seems to be ideologically driven, like based on some religious or political view.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6142743576584523533.post-23605533989654145742009-04-10T12:51:00.000-06:002009-04-10T12:51:00.000-06:00Hmmmmm. I still kind of think they're assholes.No...Hmmmmm. I still kind of think they're assholes.<BR/><BR/>No, I think this post makes a lot of sense. But it's still really hard to be tolerant/forgiving of people like this because it feels like they're coming into our spaces and spreading their pollution. Although, on the other hand, our blogs don't just exist so we can talk to each other and "preach to the choir." I mean, I think we hope to influence people who don't already agree with us as well, and that requires interacting with people like this sometimes. <BR/><BR/>And I never would have thought of this as an issue of privilege, but it does make sense the way you describe it.Saranoreply@blogger.com